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Author Topic: Ruleset/System ideas  (Read 8876 times)
Nalanod
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« on: February 09, 2009, 04:48:15 PM »

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« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 02:41:16 PM by Nalanod » Logged
zenbitz
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2009, 10:05:57 PM »

I am with you on the HP thing.  Although what I think you mean is the following:

1) Hide HP values from players
2) Don't have ever-increasing HPs (even if hidden) as players get better.

I also hate levels, classes and all that AD&D version 1.0 baggage (Although I haven't done much in the last 10 years, I cut my teeth on the old 80s and 90s PnP games)

But I think before we get into stats etc., it needs to be decided more what players are GOING TO DO beyond just
"something fallout like".   We may decide that the answer is "exactly" like FO1/FO2 but it should at least be enumerated what these things are.

Uh, since I brought it up, I will put it in a new thread.

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zenbitz
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2009, 11:07:59 PM »

Quote
These are derived from the Tarafore system by Tim Dedeaux (http://www.rpg.net/columns/talesfromtherockethouse/talesfromtherockethouse1.phtml).  I obtained his permission to adapt his system for an RPG I started working on last year.  My programming skills were not good enough to complete it, so I hung it up.  I will contact him and obtain written permission to adapt his system if this is something the PARPG team wishes to pursue.

I wanted to comment on this, and also Martins wiki comment about "stealing SPECIAL".    ALTHOUGH I AM NOT A LAWYER I do not think one can copyright or patent "game mechanics" or "rules".  You certainly can with artwork, source code, or text.  You can theoretically patent algorithms from a computer science perspective - but I don't think we are going to get into any IP (Intellectual Property) issues ther.

RPGs since the 70s have used some combination of these stats (between 3 and 20 in number) using various synonyms for Strength, Constitution, Wit, Wisdom, Dexterity, Charisma etc. that have been around for years.  They might vary from 1-5 or 3-18 or 1-21 or 1-100 or 1-very large number.   

My approach would be to decide what "stats" your game needs and name them in the most descriptive way.  Don't worry about duplicating some other game system - it's more like fashion design than literature; game designers have been ripping each other off for years.
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zenbitz
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2009, 06:57:30 AM »

I am with you on the HP thing.  Although what I think you mean is the following:

1) Hide HP values from players
2) Don't have ever-increasing HPs (even if hidden) as players get better.



Nope, that isn't what I mean.  No hitpoints at all.  A working model will follow soon but I have had a long day and I want to go to sleep.

Hmm.... I think I skipped a step.    You have to represent your damage/trauma/heath model on the computer somehow.  The most simplistic model I can think of is:  You are either alive or dead.  If someone hits you with a (lethal) weapon - you are dead.  This is equivalent to a model where you have 1 HP (and all weapons do 1 damage!).    This is obviously expandable to a model where you are healthy/wounded/dead.  Now you have 2 HPs.  Then you could expand it to 6 hit locations (head, body, 2 arms, 2 legs - each which can be healthy/wounded/dead (read: crippled).   So each location has HPs... but if you are crippled in the head or body, you are dead (or unconscious, or whatever other health model you want to  impose).


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zenbitz
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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2009, 07:06:06 AM »

ALTHOUGH I AM NOT A LAWYER I do not think one can copyright or patent "game mechanics" or "rules". 

Yes, you can (copyright -- patent doesn't apply to this subject).

Well, you obviously can't copyright something like:
Quote
Strength:  Ability to lift heavy objects and damage done through unarmed/melee combat.

I suppose you could try to copyright any given combination of dictionary words and definitions in a RPG setting.  Has anyone ever done this?  Sued over it?    Of course, if you are worried - just take whatever you want and swap "Deftness" for "Dexterity" or vice-versa.   


Quote
Also, I wouldn't hack someone's system without getting the thumbs up and giving them attribution when it is appropriate.

Well, it certainly can be considered rude, and I wasn't recommending it.  I would just not be concerned in a legal sense with ripping off someone's game mechanic.  Believe me, if you can think of it, probably some goofball wrote it into a game in 1987.

Here's an example.  The Boss monster.  I had a discussion with a housemate today about how I HATE Boss monsters in video games.  Hate 'em!  Don't care for 'em.  Won't have 'em.   I got to wondering what the first boss monster in a game was.   I figured it was some 80s arcade game... and indeed, in 1980 Taito's game "Pheonix" (I played this in the 80s you young whippersnappers... get off my lawn)  had a boss monster!  HOWEVER the _first_ (according to wikipedia, so YMMV) was a dragon in a game called dnd for the for the PLATO system released in _1975_.  Even I am not old enough to remember the PLATO system!  (Google if you care about antiques...)

My point is - no one copyrighted the boss monster.  You can't.  Just like you can't really copyright "statistics" in an RPG.  You can only plagurize text directly.



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zenbitz
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2009, 08:11:23 AM »


It is an RPG.  I am outlining a possible system for a character to do things.  Fight, get hurt, lie, shoot a gun, fix a flat, or swim an icy river.  Whether or not anyone wants to do any of those things in game doesn't matter.  The system would handle it.

EDIT:  Sorry for being a jerkface.  I'm tired.

Hey, it's the internet.  I try not to take it personal.

But what about THESE tasks:
- Fly a spaceshuttle
- Raise an octopus
- Design a computer role playing game
- Change a diaper
- Hit a baseball
- Defuse an alien WMD

Are you going to design a system that handles those too?  Or maybe they won't be in the game?  But how would you know if it's not been decided what's in the game?

You're the guy going "No XP! No HP! No Levels!"  Oh, but we need 7 stats like every other game.
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zenbitz
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2009, 10:08:31 PM »

This is a reasonable system, to be sure, but you missed the point.

Why even have a rule for raising octopi?  It's not going to be in the game, so who cares?
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Nalanod
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2009, 02:28:28 PM »

This is a reasonable system, to be sure, but you missed the point.

Why even have a rule for raising octopi?  It's not going to be in the game, so who cares?

There isn't a rule for it.  Any system of reasonable rules can cover most situations.  I didn't miss the point, you are just shifting it.  You said, "Don't talk about mechanics until we know what the game will be!"  Then I showed you why that statement was inaccurate.

"You can't raise an octopus!"

"Sure, like this."

"Why would you even want to raise an octopus?  That isn't in the game!"

Is your point to work as a team or snipe and argue?  Because maybe I am missing your point.

EDIT:  I work with assholes all day.  The last thing I need is a project that increases my asshole exposure.  With that, have a great time all.  I'll go back to working on the game I want to make with the local gang.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 02:43:36 PM by Nalanod » Logged
mvBarracuda
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2009, 03:02:55 PM »

Sorry to hear that Nalanod :-/

Any proposals to try to avoid these kind of confrontation especially in the beginning of the project when there is no defined frame for setting, story and game mechanics yet?
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zenbitz
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2009, 08:21:38 PM »

Sorry to hear that Nalanod :-/

Any proposals to try to avoid these kind of confrontation especially in the beginning of the project when there is no defined frame for setting, story and game mechanics yet?

Uh, gee.... I guess I should be nicer?  I feel like kind of a jerk,  but I was only trying to avoid getting locked down in some details before the setting and stuff was even thought about.
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